Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/02/2000 01:36 PM Senate JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
February 2, 2000
1:36 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman
Senator Dave Donley
Senator John Torgerson
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 11
Relating to substance abuse treatment for offenders in the criminal
justice system.
-MOVED HCR 11 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 43
"An Act relating to police training surcharges imposed for
violations of municipal ordinances."
-MOVED HB 43 OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7(FIN) am
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to initiative and referendum petitions.
-MOVED SCS CSHJR 7(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 45(FIN) am
"An Act relating to initiative and referendum petitions; and
providing for an effective date."
-MOVED SCS CSHB 45(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HCR 11 - No previous action to report.
HJR 7 - See Senate Judiciary Committee minutes dated 1/24/00.
HB 43 - No previous action to report.
HB 45 - See Senate Judiciary Committee minutes dated 01/24/00.
WITNESS REGISTER
Ms. Margaret Pugh, Commissioner
Department of Corrections
240 Main Street, Suite 700
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HCR 11
Ms. Sarah Williams
Department of Corrections
4500 Diplomacy Drive
Ketchikan, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HCR 11
Representative Gary Davis
State Capitol Building
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 43
Mr. Peter Torkelson
Representative Dyson's Office
State Capitol Building
Juneau, Alaska 999801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HCR 11
Mr. Scott Brandt-Ericksen
Ketchikan Gateway Borough
344 Front Street
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 43
Mr. Gerald Luckhaupt, Attorney
Legislative Legal and Research Services
Terry Miller Building
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 43
Representative Bill Williams
State Capitol Building
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 7 and HB 45
Ms. Sandra Mattie
Alaska Way of Life
211 Saphire Drive
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
Mr. James A. Crary
2720 Kempton Hills Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
Mr. Al Anders
2800 Valleywood Drive, #B
Anchorage, Alaska 99517
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
Mr. Uwe Kalenka
635 East 73rd
Anchorage, Alaska 99509
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
Ms. Carol Torsen
1558 Thuja Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
Mr. Ken Jacobus
425 G Street, #920
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
Mr. Ed Earnhart
1043 West 4th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99518
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 7
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-3, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Judiciary Committee meeting to
order at 1:36 p.m. and brought up HCR 11 as the first order of
business.
HCR 11-SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT FOR OFFENDERS
MR. PETER TORKELSON, staff of Representative Dyson, stated that HCR
11 is a statement of priorities for the Department of Corrections.
Substance abuse treatment should be the number one priority and
without treatment offenders will be back.
COMMISSIONER MARGARET PUGH, Department of Corrections (DOC), stated
DOC is pleased this resolution has been introduced. Substance
abuse is a large public health problem in Alaska and factors
heavily in the criminal justice system. DOC is committed to
offering a continuum of care for the treatment of alcoholism and
substance abuse. Last year a treatment program for female
offenders was started, and hopefully, that program will be expanded
to the male population this year.
SENATOR TORGERSON commented that on page 2 of the bill it is stated
"Alaska may redirect and restructure resources to provide
standardized screening and culturally appropriate substance abuse
treatment in the corrections system." He asked if DOC was going to
create more than one standard.
COMMISSIONER PUGH responded this section was added to underscore
the importance of a program recognizing the Native culture.
SENATOR TORGERSON responded it sounds expensive and if the
legislation is enacted it would need a fiscal note.
COMMISSIONER PUGH responded that volunteers and elders of the
community currently implement the cultural programs.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked what the sanctions for offenders are.
COMMISSIONER PUGH answered there is a zero tolerance policy for
substance abuse in institutions. An offender is sanctioned for the
introduction or use of contraband while in an institution and this
is done by loss of privilege and loss of good time.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if legislation is needed to provide
sanctions.
COMMISSIONER PUGH responded no, this is already part of the
statutes and regulations.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked the Commissioner if this legislation really
has a zero fiscal note.
COMMISSIONER PUGH answered yes, as a resolution, but if there were
more specific requirements from a bill the requirements would have
to be addressed separately.
Number 522
SENATOR ELLIS asked if this legislation would take resources from
existing programs to fund substance abuse programs.
COMMISSIONER PUGH responded no.
SENATOR DONLEY asked the Commissioner to give more details on
sanctions imposed.
COMMISSIONER PUGH replied loss of custody status and time in
segregation.
SENATOR DONLEY stated the resolution calls for failure to comply
with court ordered treatment and asked what the sanctions are for
that.
COMMISSIONER PUGH responded DOC has the ability to revoke probation
or parole in advance of release.
MS. SARAH WILLIAMS, DOC, added furloughs can be withheld if a
person does not follow through with treatment recommended by the
court, and opportunities to participate in activities are sometimes
denied.
SENATOR ELLIS complemented the sponsor and stated he hoped the
committee would support the legislation.
MS. VALERIE THERRIAN, Advisory Board on Alcohol and Drug Abuse,
stated the board supports HCR 11. The board feels that treatment
for people who are still in jail may provide for less recidivism.
SENATOR DONLEY asked whether DOC has a written policy regarding
prisoners who refuse to comply with court ordered substance abuse
programs.
COMMISSIONER PUGH answered there are policies on anticipatory
revocation.
MS. WILLIAMS added there are many more inmates on waiting lists for
treatment than those whose refuse court ordered treatment.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked why there is a waiting list.
MS. WILLIAMS responded care providers can only handle a limited
amount of clients at one time. Fast turn around time also requires
more time spent on processing and further placement--there are not
enough resources to meet the demand.
SENATOR DONLEY moved HJR 11 from committee with individual
recommendations. Without objection, HJR 11 moved from committee
with individual recommendations.
HB 43-MUNI.ORDINANCES:POLICE TRAINING SURCHARGE
Number 1283
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS stated HB 43 is intended to be a housecleaning
measure to HB 261 which increased the amount of crimes with
surcharges. HB 43 is an attempt to correct and clarify how
municipalities enact the surcharges.
HB 43 clarifies that fines and penalties are to be imposed for
criminal violations and not for civil violations. This legislation
also clarifies how municipalities will impose the fines--an
ordinance must be passed to authorize the collection of
surcharges.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed concern that surcharges used for training
police officers in Anchorage and state troopers in Sitka will not
be affected by this legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded the intent is not to divert funds.
It is up to the Police Standards Council to distribute the money
where it sees a need.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if the Fairbanks North Star Borough opposed
this legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded there had been a discussion on some
of the wording, but he did not know its position.
SENATOR ELLIS requested the committee ask for the Borough's
position.
MR. SCOTT BRANDT-ERICKSEN, Ketchikan Gateway Borough, stated
Ketchikan feels this legislation is an improvement over the current
law. He expressed concern about the interaction between the way
municipal codes are constructed and the way surcharges are applied.
Ketchikan's code provides a general penalty provision which says
any violation can be subject to a fine up to $500.00 and up to 30
days imprisonment. Anchorage has a fine up to $300.00 and up to 30
days imprisonment or both, and Fairbanks' fine is up to $1000 and
up to 90 days imprisonment or both.
In Anchorage, for most violations imprisonment is not the penalty
and a $10.00 surcharge is imposed, a fine of $50.00 is imposed for
a misdemeanor seeking imprisonment. Other municipalities do not
have codes as well developed and Mr. Brandt-Ericksen would like a
distinction made between the $10.00 and $50.00 surcharges, as to
when and how they are applied.
Number 1993
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR clarified that Mr. Brandt-Ericksen would like to
have the option of a $10.00 surcharge for cases not seeking
incarceration.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR noted the committee does have a letter from the
Fairbanks North Star Borough, and it would like to remain neutral
on this legislation.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that a simple formula may be needed to
standardize surcharges so that one cannot charge a municipal
$1000.00 surcharge when other communities are charging $500.00 for
the same offense.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if the Judiciary Committee was not the right
committee for addressing Mr. Brandt-Ericksen's concern about the
way surcharges are applied rather than sending the bill on to
another committee.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR answered by saying the bill can be held if
committee members would like more time to address the issue.
MR. GERALD LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Council for the Division of Legal
Services, stated language was put in the bill specifying the actual
provision of the ordinance that specifies a penalty. The most
equitable way of applying sanctions seem to be to use criminal
sanctions rather than civil sanctions. To find an equitable system
throughout the state, municipalities may need a penalty provision
that applies penalties without a jail term. Ordinances can be
amended to provide a fine resulting in a lesser surcharge.
TAPE 00-03, SIDE B
MR. BRANDT-ERICKSEN commented that he sees this legislation as an
improvement over the current system, and more coordination between
local legislation, practices and enforcement may be the most
effective solution.
SENATOR TORGERSON moved HB 43 from committee with individual
recommendations and its accompanying fiscal note. Without
objection, HB 43 moved from committee.
Number 2238
HJR 7-CONST AM: INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS
HB 45-INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS
REPRESENTATIVE WILLLIAMS was in attendance to answer questions.
MS. SANDRA MATTIE, Alaskan Way of Life, Trappers Assn. and Caribou
Calf Protection Program, said she was testifying on HJR 7 and
supports the bill. The ballot initiative process must be preserved
and protected from exploitation. Alaska needs to be protected from
outside interest groups that have an affect on what is placed on
the ballot. There must be opportunities for ballot initiatives
that reflect the desires of all Alaskans. Requiring signatures to
be collected from qualified voters from all Alaskan voting
districts, equal in number to a minimum of 10% to 15% of those who
voted in the preceding general election will ensure this.
MR. JAMES A. CRARY, representing himself, stated the initiative
process is a constitutional right and is a serious matter. He is
against HB 45 because it limits rather than expands the process.
He suggests getting signatures over the internet, not having to
collect signatures in person, placing no cap on the price paid per
signature, reinstating the grace period, and there should be
guaranteed access to malls and other public areas.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. Crary if he had reviewed CSHB 45 because
the CS has been amended to incorporate some of decisions from
Buckley v. American Constitutional Law Foundation, Inc., 525 U.S.
182 (1999).
MR. CRARY responded he had not but HB 45 has gone way beyond the
Buckley decision by making the initiative process more restrictive.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if Mr. Crary felt it was appropriate for the
legislature to limit the amount people pay in contributions for
political campaigns.
MR. CRARY responded it is not the same thing, paying for signatures
on an initiative is different than paying for a political campaign.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked Mr. Crary if he knew of any state using
electronic media for collecting signatures on ballot initiatives.
MR. CRARY responded no, but wondered why Alaska did not
take the lead.
Number 1583
MR. AL ANDERS, Alaska Libertarian Party, expressed concern that
limits are put on how much a person can be paid for collecting
signatures. He agreed with Mr. Crary and Representative Williams
that rural areas should be included in the initiative process more
by making it easier for initiatives to be put on the ballot.
Removing the sponsor and making the petition one page--making it
easier to post on the internet and to be faxed--would make the
process more accessible for rural areas.
MR. UWE KALENKA, Alaskans for Property Tax Reform, expressed his
concern about HB 45 restricting the initiative process, and he
asked the committee to reject the bill.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mr. Kalenka if he knew the people of Alaska
would have the opportunity to vote on this initiative.
MR KALENKA responded he knew this, but "why fix something that
isn't broken," and why spend money on this issue if there is not a
problem.
MS. CAROL TORSEN, representing herself, stated she supports HJR 7
in the original form. Due to the high concentration of voters in
Anchorage and Fairbanks, initiatives can be placed on the ballot
without any signatures from the 10 rural house districts of Alaska.
She, therefore, urges the legislature to restore HJR 7 as
originally introduced.
MR. KEN JACOBUS, representing himself, stated he does not believe
wildlife management by the ballot box is proper. He feels wildlife
management should be taken out of the initiative process by letting
people vote on the issue.
MR. JACOBUS feels it is important a circulator sponsor distinction
be recognized. An affidavit of age, residency and citizenship
should not be required because it does not matter who circulates
the petition--getting registered voters to sign is what matters.
MR. JACOBUS recommends that HJR 11 and HB 45 be defeated.
Number 1129
MR. ED EARNHART, representing himself, stated he supports HB 45.
SENATOR TORGERSON moved CSHB 45 from committee with individual
recommendations.
SENATOR ELLIS objected, feeling, though well intentioned by
Representative Williams, this legislation is a step backward in
letting the people petition the government.
Number 389
SENATOR DONLEY asked for a review of CSHB 45.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR answered CSHB 45 is the application of the Buckley
supreme court decision, making the inconsistencies of state law
compliant with federal law.
SENATOR ELLIS responded that Buckley lends itself to a separate
piece of legislation and should not be added to what Representative
Williams is trying to accomplish in his bill.
SENATOR DONLEY commented that Senator Ellis' point was valid, but
he will vote to move CSHB 45 from committee, even though he does
not support the bill, because the changes are consistent with the
federal constitution.
The roll was taken on the motion. Voting yea: SENATOR DONLEY,
SENATOR TORGERSON and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR. Voting nay: SENATOR ELLIS,
and so SCS CSHB 45(JUD) moved from committee.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the committee needed more time to look at
the bill.
SENATOR ELLIS responded there are many issues in the bill that need
to be addressed separately, and he is strongly opposed to passing
the bill out of committee.
SENATOR DONLEY commented he is not convinced the initiative process
needs to be changed, but he sees no need for CSHB 45 to stay in
committee.
SENATOR TORGERSON stated he agrees with much of the testimony but
he is disheartened that a solution has not been offered for
Representative Williams' problem. Only 24 people from
Representative Williams' district signed a statewide initiative,
and no one seems to care it was only 24 people. Ketchikan is not
a small community and people do not have to travel long distances
to collect signatures. There were only 279 signatures for all of
southeastern Alaska. This legislation may be going too far, but
this may be what it takes to get people talking about how to get
the initiative process working.
TAPE 00-4, SIDE A
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented he is willing to move the legislation
through the process, but if CSHB 45 does not pass on the senate
floor alternative legislation should be submitted on behalf of the
committee. The exclusion of wildlife management from the
initiative process and Buckley may need to be addressed as separate
matters.
SENATOR TORGERSON moved CSHB 45 and HJR 7 with the accompanying
resolution out of committee with individual recommendations and
fiscal notes.
SENATOR ELLIS objected saying:
I really hope that folks watching this process here in the
legislature and beyond, will view this in the present context.
I don't think this is an isolated incident. It's one more
piece of what I think of as a very disturbing trend of
legislators who become frustrated with signatures on a ballot
initiative or the outcome of a ballot initiative, coming to
Juneau and using their position in the Majority to rewrite the
will of the people, outright overturn the will of the
people...
SENATOR TORGERSON and REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS objected.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Senator Ellis to address the specifics of the
bill.
SENATOR ELLIS stated it is the trend of this legislature to
overturn the will of the people through the ballot box. Most
people find this offensive and he believes this is an abuse of
power. The testimony put before the committee attests to the fact
that there will be massive criticism across the entire political
spectrum.
He continued by saying:
A lot of those people will say, oh I signed a petition to
limit property taxes in this state, thousands of Alaskans did
all across this state, and the first thing the legislature
does, and it will seem to them that the timing is very
suspect...
SENATOR TORGERSON raised a point of order and said:
It was not all across the state, I've already entered into the
record that it was not down in Ketchikan or six districts
{indisc.}or other districts.
SENATOR ELLIS responded that Senator Torgerson's concern was not a
point of order.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR agreed and told Senator Ellis to continue.
SENATOR ELLIS continued by saying the people who signed the
property tax initiative will think the first reaction of the
legislature is to limit their petition rights, and he strongly
objects to passing CSHB 45.
Number 449
SENATOR DONLEY stated for the record he will vote "do not pass" on
both pieces of legislation, but he is not opposed to moving the
bill out of committee. Even though he respects the motives of the
sponsor, he is not convinced this legislation is right.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented this is the only opportunity the public
will have on this subject because it is barred from the initiative
process--the only way to get this issue on the ballot is through
the legislature. The Chairman stated he would like the legislation
moved to the Finance Committee.
SENATOR DONLEY moved CSHB 45 from committee with individual
recommendations.
SENATOR ELLIS objected.
The roll was taken on the motion. Voting yea: SENATOR DONLEY,
SENATOR TORGERSON and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR. Voting nay: SENATOR ELLIS,
and so SCS CSHB 45(JUD) moved from committee.
SENATOR TORGERSON moved HJR 7 from committee with individual
recommendations.
SENATOR ELLIS objected, feeling the Judiciary Committee is where
this issue needs to be worked out and this committee should not
"pass the buck" on to another committee. He commented that
committee members should be voting their true positions.
SENATOR DONLEY commented legislators will be voting their true
positions by how they sign the committee report. He will be
recommending "do not pass" and he will be voting "no" on the floor
of the senate.
SENATOR ELLIS interjected that instead of "true position," he meant
"position on the merits of the legislation."
SENATOR TORGERSON commented he is also saying "no recommendation,"
knowing there will be other opportunities to work on the wording
when the bill is in the Finance Committee.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR stated he was not satisfied with the wording of the
bill either and he expects more work will be done.
The roll was taken on the motion. Voting yea: SENATOR TORGERSON,
SENATOR DONLEY and CHAIRMAN TAYLOR. Voting nay: SENATOR ELLIS,
and so SCS HJR 7(JUD) moved from committee with individual
recommendations.
SENATOR ELLIS commented that Chairman Taylor has handled the
committee well during heated discussions, and he asked that
interruptions be based on a point of order and for the chairman to
decide if the point of order is legitimate.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR stated he would be happy to comply.
SENATOR TORGERSON recommended that facts put before the committee
be true facts so there will be no need for a point of order.
With nothing else to come before the committee, CHAIRMAN TAYLOR
adjourned at 3:25 p.m.
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